Blood for the Baron!

What about removing the packaging, and binning the crappy jeep and figure? Would that save on space and weight some?

The Baron wrote:What about removing the packaging, and binning the crappy jeep and figure? Would that save on space and weight some?

I have no problem unpacking to help conserve space and weight and removing the bits people don't want.

Lady Jaye wrote:Aye Steel, I know what you are saying. I really love the customs I see here. Especially Jimbo has created a couple of neat customs that made me think: "Why did Palitoy never come up with these things?"

Many Thanks!

But Chap Mei is and will remain plain crap! It is too different from the quality we got in the 80ies. You can repaint it, you can rework it, and still it is Chap Mei crap. I agree with Quickfire. (1) The chopper needs a hell of a lot of rework to slighty fit into the AF universe. (2) In the eighties there were numerous b-toylines, but we wanted AF. Why do we want to change inferior rubbish into AF?

I don't really have a strong opinon on this and am not looking to convince anyone to change their view, but since my post sort of started it I though I'd add my penny's-worth. I've been customising some vehicles for a few months now. Mainly GI Joe, but a few others which can be grouped under what I think LJ is referring to as 'B-branded'. I've sat down with all my vehicles for a moment and agree that Palitoy's toys had a little bit extra in terms of quality of manufacture. By that I don't just mean the materials etc, but that a little bit of thought seems to have gone into some of them. By way of example of the first 'quality' - the use of soft plastic 'rubbery' wheels over the hard plastic ones on the original GI Joe VAMP (Panther), MMS (MMS), HAL (Laser Exterminator), APC (APC) etc. For the second 'quality', the APC is a great example. I have a GI Joe which I am customising to carry troops in (it has seats for sixteen) which is a great idea for infantry transport (what an APC is for!), but the Z Force one had the first aid area, communications area, the little storage are with lid, a couple of seats and the hatch on top actually opened. I think it's these little things that make it one of the most sought after of Action Force vehicles.

However, and I must point out at this stage that Steeler was one of my most treasured figures and the 'Goddess' a great vehicle, if you saw it today, you may well label it 'B-brand' since it is a very basic vehicle, with limited motorisation (is that a word?), no internal hatches or removable items (tow rope, tools, fuel cans etc).

There are two things that I think made the Forces (Z, SAS, Q, Space, Enemy) over even its own Action Force predecessor, and that would still be effective today:

One is the realistic scale; which even some GI Joe lines lose out on a bit. One thing that does annoy me with most 'B-brand' products is that the weapons are totally out of scale with the figures (many of whom are unrealistically scaled themselves). Some charaters have pistols with handles as big as their head, and some with rifles longer than they are! This may because smaller, more detailed weapons require better tooling, which means more expense, for items which a child will probably lose anyway. I think the figures also suffer from WWF or superhero syndrome, in that they are all extremely muscular, barrel-chested, with expressions to sour milk.

The other I was in discussion with a fellow Forum member via email last week about. It's the whole colour scheme thing. Love it or hate it, I think it is the defining quality of the Palitoy toys. Look at other 'realistic' (or intended that way anyway) figure lines including GI Joe*. Again they all have the superhero look, with various colours, few military in nature, some even seem to be luminescent! Action Force all seem part of the same team, wearing the same uniform. Even those which didn't seem to be a great advantage (Q Force's Red/Yellow/Blue) at least identify them as a team. There have been a few questions about Z Force green in the Creativity Forum, but at the end of the day it isn't very tactical, especially in the desert, where they had their greatest epic adventure (IMHO). So I suppose I'm saying that although I agree the quality of some of the base toys I have seen and/or bought may not be near as good as the ones that were produced 20 years ago, with a bit of paint, a few stickers and some cunning little modifications they look like they belong, and are part of that Force.

Finally (my last point I promise) whatever your view on the subject, Palitoy will not make any more Action Force for us, so you either have to finish your collection with those precious few which were made all those years ago, or you have to pick up the flag and use what is available to you.


Now, I'm going to lie down as my fingers, eyes and brain are tired!

Jim


*I'm not slamming GI Joe by the way, just trying to justify why I think Action Force is better.

jimbo wrote:However, and I must point out at this stage that Steeler was one of my most treasured figures and the 'Goddess' a great vehicle, if you saw it today, you may well label it 'B-brand' since it is a very basic vehicle, with limited motorisation (is that a word?), no internal hatches or removable items (tow rope, tools, fuel cans etc).

Chap Mei stuff is just crap without any spirit of its own. It is a generic action figure without any soul. Designed by some Chinese, produced in countless variations, but always the same crap slammed into a box. It is just a toy without a soul, nothing worth collecting. I don't think in 20 years time a Chap Mei forum will see the day of light. It will be forgotten as easy as it came to market.

The MOBAT and Steeler are no B-branded product and never will be. Palitoy and Hasbro created a whole myth around the product that made it A-branded. Why did we want Action Force as a kid? Because we liked the comics, we loved the heroes. We could have gotten other B-branded toys in those days (eg. Galoob's Sgt. Patch) that could have fitted our needs for soldiers, but still we wanted Action Force.

Nowadays kids don't want Chap Mei because they like the faceless heroes, they just want that big f***ing chopper to throw around the living room. The figures that accompany the toys are just nameless cannonfodder that will be forgotten the moment a kid gets interested more in girls than toys.

After almost 25 years we still remember Steeler. That's the difference why Action Force is A-Brand!

If Palitoy would have been in business today, they would never make a toy would slightly resemble the Chap Mei rubbish. It just wouldn't fit in the Action Force universe.

jimbo wrote:Look at other 'realistic' (or intended that way anyway) figure lines including GI Joe*. Again they all have the superhero look, with various colours, few military in nature, some even seem to be luminescent!

Action Force and GI Joe are both superheroes that save the day. Both are toylines with a military flavour, but never intended to be realistic. OK, bottom line Action Force had a more realistic flavour, but come on! The AF5/7 were 100% nonsense, the orange parts of Z Force and the yellow of SAS don't make sense at all, the Red Shadows and their vehicles ignore the rules of camouflage and forces of nature. Why is it that people see Action Force as realistic?

BBI & 21st Century are toys that have the sole purpose of being as accurate as possible. They fit pretty neat in the Action Force universe. Palitoy would have been able to make toys like this, providing they would slam in some bright paint here and there.

jimbo wrote:Finally (my last point I promise) whatever your view on the subject, Palitoy will not make any more Action Force for us, so you either have to finish your collection with those precious few which were made all those years ago, or you have to pick up the flag and use what is available to you.

That is why I love your customs! It looks as if it could have been made by Palitoy if they would have continued. You use GI Joe parts to extend the line. GI Joe and Action Force interchange very well and combining those is a great way of expanding the forces.

But Chap Mei is and will be an insult to Action Force.

Just my two eurocents...

I think we may actually be in broad agreement here, but I've got a hangover that would kill a horse, so I may be mistaken.

What I think you are saying is that it's the 'Force' aspect and the fact that each action figure in the line had a name, a detailed 'realistic' biography, rather than just another nameless action figure, which makes Action Force A-brand and Chap Mei B-brand. I know my knowledge of European cities improved as I collected Action Force And I allude again to the uniform nature of the colour scheme, even though I agree it is at times ridiculous. Perhaps this was an attempt to convince children that they were buying 'toy soldiers', but give parents the impression that they weren't strictly military toys, since the didn't have distinctive and realistic camoflage colouring (you know how weird parents can be).

If so, then if I customise Chap Mei products, adding a figure if necessary which ties in the Action Force ethos, it becomes an A-brand product? If so then doesn't every B-brand toy has the potential to become A-brand! (Sorry, but the kids have got Toy Story on at the moment and I was thinking of the poor Chap Mei toys consigned to a life of namelessness and ridicule ).

Anyway off to lie down now, not so much from alcohol abuse, but from the deep thinking about toy existentialism that has had to go into these last posts!

Jim

For me it had to be the SAS squad, this is what made the whole thing realistic. The other teams were all fantastical, and I grew to love them too (well, maybe not Q Force) but it was my SAS figures who were the real heroes.

(The Baron ducks for cover before Jaye resets his artillery range)

I think that toys the figures can fit in just add to the fun. I myself used to modify my tonka toys (the metal ones) A-Team style. So that is my veiw that cheap B-brand stuff can be alot of fun.

jimbo wrote:If so, then if I customise Chap Mei products, adding a figure if necessary which ties in the Action Force ethos, it becomes an A-brand product?

No. Stitching a couple of Adidas logs on a pair of cheap shoes, do not make them Adidas, now do they?

Basics of marketing. A-brands give customers more than just a product, they give customers a certain feeling. Volvo doesn't sell cars, they sell the feeling safety. Ray Ban doesn't sell sunglasses, they sell "I am cool/hip/trendy". If brands don't have a certain unique feeling around them they would be just another B-product. Or even worse: a generic product. A-brands have clear USP (Unique Selling Points) that make them stick out of the crowd and are surrounded by a certain image.

jimbo wrote:If so then doesn't every B-brand toy has the potential to become A-brand! (Sorry, but the kids have got Toy Story on at the moment and I was thinking of the poor Chap Mei toys consigned to a life of namelessness and ridicule ).

If they would put some serious marketing in it, new product developement, cartoons, animation, membership club, etc. that would make the product line stand out, then maybe yes. But seeing tons of repaints of the same vehicles (Soldier Force I-IV, Dino Hunters, etc.) I can see this is mass produced plastic without a soul.

Oh well, I think we may have to agree to disagree on the finer points

Jimbo

Nae probs!

We all share the same hobby, that's most important!